Clinton and Obama were in Florida today. McCain yesterday. The fight for Florida is back on! Recent polling (polls!) has Clinton beating McCain in the general with the reverse true when Obama is the nominee. With both candidates now vowing to seat the Florida delegates, the DNC Rules Committee should officially vote to seat them next Saturday. Question is, will everyone be happy with the arrangement?
Flori-duh
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21 responses to “Flori-duh”
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I’m with the 50% solution. There needs to be punishment, that’s for sure, but denying the delegation was always a tad harsh.
I like the super delegate stripping too…but I’d apply it only to supers who had a say in the election date. That means party officials, AND any PLEOs who voted for it in the legislature. This would be for Florida AND Michigan. Sorry, Gov. Granholm, you’re not invited to the party.
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Odin, I believe the quote is ” Politics is show business for ugly people”.
I said that to a Secret Service guy in 2004 at a event we were both working, and he laughed so loud… apparently he’d never heard it before.. bless his heart.
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flashback to Sept of 07 when Obama pledged to seat FL:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking
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I disagree, JW. Institutions tend not to change until they experience failure. Some are better than others in this aspect, but I think government and the military are the worst in terms of not learning their lessons until history and reality smash them in the face.
That goes for both parties – the Cassandras of the GOP are already foretelling the epic smackdown coming this November unless they invent some REALLY great Kool-aid.
Haha, Jules. That may actually be a most awful punishment indeed. Politics as the Hollywood for unattractive people, indeed.
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Obama is a lame poorly timed candidate. If these were good times, GREAT take us to the next level.
These are not good times though. We need someone with acknowledged toughness even if she’s not likable to most.
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Odin, seriously bad visual in your statement ” like the stripping of the supers idea”.. I really do not want to see these folks naked.
That is what you meant?? Right, Huh? Of you meant their votes… my bad! carry on
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For MI, I’d say it’s fine to just count the 55 uncommitteds as a combined Edwards / Obama protest vote and call it a day.
At this point, no one is going to be 100% happy – let’s just bury this thing and move on.
I do like the stripping of the supers idea, though. Does sound like a very appropriate way to stick it to the state parties for not having it together.
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I’m torn on this too. Was just talking to my Mom (who lives in FL) and she is pissed as hell at people saying she and the other voters who had no say in moving the date should be punished. Her feeling is, punish the state party, not the voters. The voters didn’t break any rules in FL. My thought is, strip them of 50% like the rules actually say is the punishment and strip them of their supers….
MI I’m more torn on since Obama wasn’t on the ballot. I don’t know what the heck is a good solution there– was saying to someone else exactly what Catherine said: I hope someone brighter than me can come up with something that will be a situation that all parties would be ok with.
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I’d settle for half the delegations at the moment. It’s the default remedy in the rules from what I hear, and it is a good parallel with the Republicans.
Anything else smells too much of favoritism and post-facto rationalizing for either side. We also get to sit delegates down and whack the state parties.
RD,
Fair enough for now. But I don’t think you’re getting that choice unless you vote for Bob Barr.
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triple post! Imagine if Florida or Michigan decided to hold their GE elections October 31, would we even CONSIDER counting those votes? I hope not.
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and for the record, i don’t think there was much democratic about not having all the candidates for the nomination on the ballot in either MI or FL. It is inherently undemocratic so its not like the MI and FL voters are missing out on anything other than a communist style election.
Speaking of commies, china better watch the eff out for Thunder. I show no mercy.
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Here is the solution:
Democrats show a spine and say break our rules, get punished, fucking deal with it.
This isn’t a democratic process, it is a party affair.
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odinseye2k,
I can go along with ABOaM2 🙂
No Obama, McKinney, nor McCain!
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It’s no big deal any more. Obama wins pledged delegates in all scenarios. If you combine Edwards’ 32 votes and the 55 uncommitteds (I think they would at *least* have to bend the rules that much in Barack’s favor to get him to sign off), there’s still a lot of breathing space.
I think the supers have gotten too hardened in their positions to go switching around much more anymore (aside from those that haven’t decided even up to this point).
Ruby,
There was some kind of substantive matter attached to the procedural bill on the primary that the FL Dems had to go ahead and vote for. Yeah, they made their choice, but they probably also had some faith that DNC at large wouldn’t chop them off at the knees.
We’ve let the game play out long enough with MI and FL on the sidelines. May as well let them back into the party.
Rural,
Sigh. It’s ABM nowadays. Get the memo.
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I agree to an extent Catherine. I don’t want to see millions of people told that their votes don’t count, but what about the thousands who didn’t vote in those states because their preferred candidates followed the rules as established by the DNC and agreed upon by all the candidates?
No one will win in this situation so our only logical solution is to banish Florida from the union. I’m not as upset about Michigan as I am Florida. 115 to 1? Every Democrat in that state, save one, voted to cast their lot in with the R’s knowing full well what they were doing. That is why it infuriates me to no end.
I don’t think I would mind some sort of arrangement with Michigan, but no way no how with Florida. They rolled the dice and they need to accept the consequences.
Then they need to be voted out of the union since they can’t ever get voting right anyway.
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I am so torn about this. I totally agree with Ruby that the state parties should be scolded and punished for breaking the rules. But, on the other hand, I hate to see all those who voted not be counted.
I don’t know what the solution is. Hopefully the people who are smarter than me will figure this out.
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No. Pure and simple. No.
I will be pissed as hell if the DNC seats all the FL and MI delegates. What it will tell me is that I am a lesser Democrat then them just because my state doesn’t matter in the general election.
Democrats are always bitching and moaning about how Republicans constantly break the rules and nothing ever gets done to them, yet when it is our own who very deliberatly break the rules that everyone agreed to beforehand, then it is suddenly different and we should just overlook it?? No.
NO. NO. NO.
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Sorry, I was being a smartass. I think polling the Democrats now is pretty ridiculous. Die hard supporters are not going to respond nicely to questions about the opposing Democrat.
Once we have a nominee I think most Democrats will see that our nominee is better than John McCain.
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Heh. Ok, so I wasn’t serious with that question.
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“Question is, will everyone be happy with the arrangement?”
Ah, no.
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Well, at least we know Floridians aren’t falling for the hype machine.
Go ABO!
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