My, how things change. In March, I thought we were heading towards a Clinton / Obama ticket. What I really meant was… the opposite:
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has told supporters that she would agree to be Senator Barack Obama’s running mate if he offered her the vice presidential spot.
Yes! Make it happen!
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My Democratic Friends,
To all Hillary supporters: I do not presume to marginalize your disappointment and pain. Hell, we’ve all mourned our candidate’s loss before. The pain runs deep and affects us forever. It is my hope that with time, your pain will lessen,you will let go and come on over to the Obama comapign, unite our party and support our nominee. We have all been working together for too long, too hard to let this divide us. As a pledged Obama delegate, I’m proud to support our nominee. If Obama had lost, I’d be proud to have supported Hillary and cast my vote for her when my candidate released his delegates to her. Please find it in your hearts to do what is best at this point for the Democratic Party. We all in this together…..to get DEMOCRATS elected! You guys are all great hard working democrats with big hearts.
Let the tradition continue..
Thanks.
Also, there’s a little of the nature of the beast there.
Liberals and progressives are almost by definition critical (we tend to push against the current state of affairs). Conservatives don’t want to change anything, so they are relatively content. Until of course, you do something that might adversely affect their comfortable state (and it can be rather hard to prove to them that every single change will not do just that).
Yeah, it’s always easy to go along to get along when you have no base principles.
We also contain the non-conformists (and yeah, let’s take a moment to enjoy the South Park goths) and turn against the Conventional Wisdom and many established powers. So there’s a little pre-disposition to fight.
Also note that the above quote is from a thread that ends in a guy gay-baiting a fellow Republican.
“How did a day that should have been a celebration go so sour?”
According to Randy, “Dems are a little crazy. They are mean – and they always get even ‚Äî especially with themselves.” Heh.
How did a day that should have been a celebration go so sour?
We are democrats, you think wouldn’t do this?
Wow. Looks like you guys had a bit of a day. Can’t say I’m sorry to have missed it, but I am a little surprised. How did a day that should have been a celebration go so sour? Damn.
As someone who supported Edwards, I try to view the Obama and Clinton battle from the sidelines.
Many of you who know me, know of my dissatisfaction with both candidates. At times, I’ve said a few things that some of y’all have contacted me about and asked me to clarify, especially when the GOP nominee was yet to be determined.
While neither Obama nor Clinton completly represent what I look for in a candidate, both of them have done an amazing job garnering support from people of all ideologies.
Obama’s viewed as the “new face” of politics. His hope and change speeches have captivated many. There are arguments from many about his qualifications, and that will likely continue until November.
Clinton’s the party insider who has the vast network of Democrats, especially because of her husband’s two terms in the White House. Hillary is a divisive figure to some, a source of inspiration for others.
I could go on and on about both, but my point is, we need to come together. I’m not going to sit here and say “let’s come together for to elect Obama”. Instead, I look at the OTHER big picture.
Nationally, we need to come together to ensure that our majorities are increased in Congress. In our state we have a few races that, if Democratic turnout suddenly drops because of this ongoing feud, we could lose. We have two incumbents, Jim Marshall and John Barrow, who need our help. We have Democrats running against sitting GOP Congressmen and these challengers need our help. Regardless of what your ideology is, if you are a Democrat then you want Saxby Chambless out of office for his vile attacks on Max Cleland in 2002.
Locally, this infighting is going to hurt us. Having spoken with some of my fellow YDs, we have the opportunity, at least in this state, to make some major increases. I know a few rural voters in my area that have come back to the party because they are so upset with the GOP. They’re willing to look beyond the social issues due to the economic problems we’re facing.
If anything, we need to unite for the downballot races. I honestly do not see an Obama/Clinton ticket because there is so much tension between the two.
Anyway, whatever happens, we need to make sure that we can continue down the road to making gains throughout this state.
Ya’ see though IRE, you can’t say that without also saying that Obama stirs up strong emotions too.
This has been an exhausting campaign, and it’s more with weary relief than any other emotion that I greeted the end of it last night. But seriously, folks, we are forgetting that there’s barely a dime’s worth of difference in policy stands between the two candidates (although I think Hillary’s health care plan is better). But as the Clinton campaign ends, it’s like a death for her supporters. I remember when Dean’s candidacy ended in 2004, and I just couldn’t get excited about anyone else. I even defiantly cast my vote in GA primary for Dean. But I certainly got behind Kerry, warts and all.
Some of the more obnoxious Obama supporters I’ve met need to be hog tied and muzzled for the time being. Let the welcoming committee be the more tolerant folks who remember what a hard choice it was to decide between two REALLY good candidates. Trust me, you definitely want the hard core Clinton folks I know in Georgia behind Obama and working for him. I’m sure it’s true across the country.
I think one of the things both sides seem to forget is that the Clintons stir up incredibly strong emotions, both for and against them. That is partly their style and a partly a result of being POTUS.
Because of that its going to be hard for HRC supporters and most importantly HRC herself to get in line.
I mean look at Edwards, dude spent eight years running for POTUS and it took him months to endorse. HRC has been running for 16 years. I don’t expect her to just get in line real quickly because of that.
Let us keep that in mind. Just give her time and she will get behind BHO.
I’m sitting here reading these comments and it pains me to think that these are the people that I’m supposed to be uniting with and moving forward for the betterment of our party and country. I am disgusted at that comments that would dismiss the fact that this has been an emotional journey for many of us and those emotions don’t go away overnight. Especially for someone like myself that started this journey well over 16 months ago. As I listened to Hillary’s speech last night…I didn’t hear something graceless, shameful and whatever the other negative comments I read earlier. I heard something that was quite the opposite and honestly very inspiring. This really says a lot for me because always said that Obama was the inspiring candidate and she had the better policies which drew me to her candidacy initially.
Here is a copy of a blog a posted in August after Camp Obama:
Monday, August 27, 2007
Camp Obama
Current mood: confused
Category: News and Politics
This past weekend, the Obama for America Campaign was in Atlanta. Camp Obama was held at Morris Brown College where about 200 supporters were taught how to go out and spread the story of Senator Obama and continue this grassroots movement.
I have been involved in many campaigns and many trainings, and I must say, I was truly impressed. I usually show up at trainings and leave bored because I could have taught the session. This was different and it has really had an impact on me and my outlook for ’08!
I was asked to be a facilitator for the weekend and was initialy a bit hesitant. All of you who know me, are probably just as shocked as I am that I agreed to this. I walked in Friday morning with an open mind….and left out Sunday night confused.
This campaign is not about the government, politics or policy….it’s about people. I led a group of doctors, students, immigrants, whites, blacks, men, women and even republicans. My weekend at Camp Obama opened my eyes to so much. For the first time, I looked past the policy and the politics and looked at the people.
The Obama for America Campaign is just that…FOR AMERICA….it’s not about Obama….people of all walks of life were connected for this common cause of a better America and the hope of tomorrow.
I know a lot of you are going to have tons of questions for me at this point, but I’m ready……so have at it!
Going back and reading this, I think the tone has completely changed. I think a lot of people, this blog included, has allowed it to become all about Obama and not the unifying campaign that it started out as. So, I ask that we all remember that this entire election is about a better America and we won’t get there by bashing each other or our democratic public servants that have devoted their lives to the betterment of our country.
I wasn’t going to weigh in on the crap but this is some bullshit. Ruby, you of all people have been slinging the vitriol hate about Hillary since Day 1. Actually, is there a candidate out there that you don’t HATE. I have always questioned Obama’s viability to win, but I have never personally attacked him as you have personally attacked the Clintons. And please give me a freaking monumental break with all the drama about how the Clintons are tearing down the damn Party. Please don’t be silent on our part – like that ever stopped you in the past – you’ll just go and sling the mud over at Democratic Underground.
Just don’t act like you have been doing me or any other Clinton supporters any favors – it‚Äôs truly insulting.
Maybe you should start reading the internal polling which shows that Obama has some serious problems to overcome – but, oh wait you wouldn’t read such things because that is way too much reality. Because lordy one can ever utter words like that without Obama supporters feeling like they are being attacked. Grow up!
Your smugness and self-righteousness exemplifies why Obama will have a hard time winning over Clinton supporters. Your version of unity isn’t what we want or need.
You bitch loudly about how the Clintons are so wrong for this Party, well let me ask you Ms. Political Wizard, what family helped the damn Party get out its losing streak? What family brought Democrats together when we were getting our asses kicked by the right time and time again?
Apparently not the Clintons according to Ruby’s political wizardy. Nah, Hillary has never done anything for the Party and she’s going to take the Party down with her now. Yeah, the scapegoat mentality is so welcoming and unified.
She has a right to stand and fight for her Party. So don’t give me that crap that she just needs to leave.
So from now until election day, just keep Smitty’s name out of your mouth when referring that Clinton supporters should “just let it go”. I am a pledged Clinton supporter and that is what I intend to do at Convention – pledge my vote to the candidate I choose.
You do your thing and I will do my thing.
I’ll see you after election day.
I think he should wait until McCain commits to someone. If McCain chooses Lieberman, it will change the calculus.
in other words: That we are welcome.
And I should clarify “place at their table” — I do not mean VP slot, I just mean that they acknowledge the hard work we did and that they have a place for us as activists in this.
Ok can I be the first to ask we put the past in the past? I know Smitty et al worked their asses off for HRC and should be commended and at least try to understand where they were coming from.
I don’t care what they said in the past, I care about what they say now and in the future.
There is going to be a fair bit of work activists need to do to help unify the party and even though I am probably perceived as being someone who doesn’t want to help do that I do.
Well said, thanks IRE!
Rubyduby, please point out a comment in there or any other blog comment on this board where I’ve acted in the way you characterize. I have tried very hard on this blog to not do so… Plus, that was before yesterday. I’ve always maintained that the way I go from here on out is how the post-win is handled by the winner and the loser. If the winner cannot see fit to give us room to grieve and a place at their table then I just might pour myself into a down ballot ticket. Telling me to “let it go” right now, today, isn’t helping so much Rubyduby….
This kind of crap is hurting the party? You have go to be kidding me.
“Unify behind me” is whats hurting this party and pushing away the 17 million people who supported Senator Clinton.
I have been very respectful of Senator Obama in all my comments and posts on this blog and everywhere else. Am I concerned about his ability to win? Absolutely. Just as I am concerned about ANY Democrats ability to win.
I have a lot of respect for you, as well, Ruby and I’m hurt that you would suggest that anything I’ve done hurts the party for which I have dedicated countless hours, dollars, and sweat.
Time for me to take some advice from Jules.
Whoa. this is kinda cool from Sullivan:
“Fantasy Team Of Rivals time: Clinton gets healthcare; Edwards gets poverty; Gore gets the environment; the other Clinton is made secretary of state.”
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/06/obamas-obvious.html
Ok can I be the first to ask we put the past in the past? I know Smitty et al worked their asses off for HRC and should be commended and at least try to understand where they were coming from.
I don’t care what they said in the past, I care about what they say now and in the future.
There is going to be a fair bit of work activists need to do to help unify the party and even though I am probably perceived as being someone who doesn’t want to help do that I do.
Who cares if she tries to position herself for VP? Who cares if she doesn’t concede the way you or I want her to? It doesn’t matter.
I don’t believe I’ve ever mentioned anything about a unifying ticket. I am simply pointing out that it is painfully apparent that some people don’t accept realities.
The entire front page of this blog, with the exception of the gracious thread from Mel congratulating Senator Obama, is awash in ‘he can’t win…he’s unelectable…he’s an idiot and you are too to think he can win’ posts.
Please tell me how this is going to bring about unity:
http://www.blogfordemocracy.org/2008/06/sunday_discussion_wheres_the_s.html#comments That’s just the first example of many that could be given. I love and respect both you and Smitty, which is why I’ve just not responded before today, but there really comes a time when its not worth it to “let it go” anymore. This kind of crap is hurting the party and I care a hell of a lot more about the party than I do any of the names with the D by it (of course with the exception of Jimmy, who also thinks it would be a huge mistake to take her as the VP http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/04/uselections2008)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkGDrV_2ehI
I think the Clintons have brought a lot of the hatred upon themselves but Sully goes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too far (I think I have labeled him as apoplectic).
As Jules said, you don’t like BHO; Jim, Rand, Josh, and Dale need all the help they can get (sorry Mr. Dickhole, you don’t get a name drop).
Andrew Sullivan? Really? We’re quoting Mr “I loved Bush before I hated him” Sullivan? I guess we have come a long way – down.
ability to raise money cannot be overlooked.
Btw,Kerry wanted to pick McCain as his running mate. McCain turned him down. Then it was Gephardt
“I’m sick of them and I’m sick of biting my tongue out of respect for the Clinton supporters here, even when the most vocal of them show absolutely no respect whatsoever to the Democratic nominee”
wow, I guess I spoke too soon. Way to go with that “unifying meme”
sndeak– sometimes it’s hard not to see the “hatefest meme” when we’re constantly surrounded by it. This blog is an exception, but it’s been pure HELL out there on the blogs and boards, and, yes, even from very live people at Manuels.
“I think it’s actually better for her to let her people decompress a little bit.”
Even after Obama gains the number needed to win, it’s still all about her. Andrew Sullivan hits the nail on the head when he says:
“The speech tonight was a remarkable one for a candidate who has lost the nomination, though not remarkable for a Clinton. It was an assertion that she had won the nomination and a refusal to concede anything to her opponent. Classless, graceless, shameless, relentless. Pure Clinton.
Her narcissism requires that she deprive her opponent of a night, or a second, of gratification or attention. And she has now won, in her Bush-like version of reality, 18 million votes. Her invitation for her supporters to email their suggestions to her website is pure theater, a way of keeping herself in the spotlight and maneuvering her delegates to demand a second spot on the ticket. The way she is now doing this – by an implicit threat, backed by McCain, to claim that Obama is an illegitimate nominee if she does not get her way – is designed to humiliate the nominee sufficiently to wound him enough to lose the election.
Either way, she is clearly intent on getting Obama defeated this fall if she is not offered the vice-presidency. And if she gets the veep nod, the way she has gotten it will allow her to argue that a November loss was not her loss. It was his. And she will run again in 2012.
She will not go away. The Clintons will never go away. And they will do all they can to cripple any Democrat who tries to replace them. In the tent or out of it, it is always about them. And they are no longer rivals to Obama; they are threats.”
I’m glad someone said it even if it is Andrew Sullivan – in the tent or out of it, it’s always about them. I’m sick of them and I’m sick of biting my tongue out of respect for the Clinton supporters here, even when the most vocal of them show absolutely no respect whatsoever to the Democratic nominee.
And now this little gem: from this morning’s conference call for the New York Congressional delegation:
Rep. Nita Lowey made a plea for patience. The reality, she said, is that the party has to unify, but Hillary needs some time to adjust… maybe even two weeks.
She needs some time to adjust???? She needs some time??? I need time to pick up the pieces of my head that just exploded!
The “hatefest” will stop only when you she stops it and that should have been last night.
“So when they hatefest stops…” That is what I was talking about when I mentioned hatefest meme.
Kaine and Warner move VA. Warner also moves WV, he has a great relationship with the ‘appalachia’ folks.
Hell, I have no freakin’ idea which way this is gonna go.
I agree that everyone needs a bit of time to decompress (perfect word). It took some of us a bit of time to come around to Kerry, but it happened and it’ll happen for Clinton’s supporters as well.
“How hard would it have been for Hillary to recognize that Obama won last night?”
I think it’s actually better for her to let her people decompress a little bit. I would be a big shock and might cause some lingering resentment if she were to just suddenly cut the cord. I think it is better for the party in the long run for her to do this in a couple of steps. Just a couple of days. Everybody already knows she’s going to do it, but having her do it “upon reflection” and “after reading your heartfelt comments” will be a much stronger way to proceed.
As an amateur psychologist, I would say that many of her people were still very pumped up last night and still ready to fight for her. Turning them loose at that moment could be more detrimental than good. As it is now, they are in limbo, waiting for direction. She will give it to them and they will be much more accepting of it.
Did I miss something? Where is Smitty posting “the hatefest meme”?
I don’t know much about Governor Kaine which may be good or may be bad – does he have name recognition and supporters to the tune of 17+ million?
Is this the best choice for Mark Warner? Me, I think I’d prefer to see him in the Senate.
I agree that Wes Clark would be a good choice, but he will be too old in 2016 to run – but that may not be as important as we sometimes think.
Richardson? He’s cranky and gruff – will likely be a disaster in any VP debates. If Gore seemed like a know-it-all (not my take but the general opinion) in 2000, then Richardson will be even worse.
“Which VP candidate can get – white rural voters, women over 50, hispanics, and voters making less than $35,000 to the polls on election day? Who?”
“I think it will end up being someone who was very much a Hillary supporter, but not Hillary herself.”
What about Evan Bayh?
He was supposed to be the rock star that Obama has become, is from a rural Republican state, and has been a big Clinton supporter.
Similar age and cohesiveness..Tim Kaine
Moderate, popular in rural areas…Mark Warner
Military exp…Wes Clark
Govt exp…Bill Richardson
Smitty please stop with the hatefest meme…that has nothing to do with this, at least not from my perspective. I just don’t see how they can work together. Are you telling me that HRC is ok with taking orders and doing what Obama says? Cuz that is what a VP does.
If I was looking for someone to run the place, I’d go with Richardson. He seems about the appropriate match for Obama in terms of temperament with a crap-ton of previous knowledge. Combine an encyclopedia with Obama’s raw intelligence and you’ve got a pretty good team.
If we’re looking for good campaign partner, I dunno. Maybe Clark.
OK. Sebelius is 60, Strickland is 66, Wes Clark is 63, Richardson is 60.
Now, I know I’ll be scolded by some (you know who you are) because the VP to Pres path is not as common as we all thought BUT it sure would be nice to be ready for 2016… which would mean a younger candidate – like Mark Warner – would be my preference. If we’re going to go for the 60+ then I say Clinton – we know that almost 50% of the Democrats like her…
There is genuine and legitimate concern that he will go off on his own, just like he did during Clinton’s campaign.
How hard would it have been for Hillary to recognize that Obama won last night?
“How do you muzzle the big dog?”
Just a little reminder… he is a former US President, respected around the world and by many right here on this blog.
It’s true that he will require handling, but this kind of language doesn’t go very far to unify those who admire and respect Mr Clinton.
We need to focus. Focus on getting more votes than John McCain.
Yeah, I think it’s more important to have good chemistry on the ticket than to think that fill-in-the-blank can deliver fill-in-the-blank votes. Because regardless of the position on the ticket, everyone should be stumping hard for this guy and local candidates among any constituency / fan base they believe they have.
When I heard that Obama had just as many people *outside* the future RNC Central as inside, that’s when my jaw hit the floor. I mean yeah, it is St. Paul on a historic night, but damn. We have ourselves a real rock star this time.
Wes Clark, Mark Warner, Sebilius or Strickland.
I don’t by the ‘it has to be Hillary’. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
How do you muzzle the big dog? That is the question.
“I think it will end up being someone who was very much a Hillary supporter, but not Hillary herself.”
Like… Wes Clark?
I think it will end up being someone who was very much a Hillary supporter, but not Hillary herself. We’ll see what the next few days show.
Obama’s speech was pretty good. I loved the line about respecting John McCain’s accomplishments even if McCain chooses to ignore his. I was like, “OH SNAP!”
I think Obama should choose who he wants. Kerry allowed himself to be pressured into choosing Edwards when he wanted to choose Gephardt. I liked Edwards as the choice, but I wonder if he wouldn’t have had a better campaign if he actually liked his running mate.
The negotiations are going to be interesting, that’s for sure.
I think he’s gotta pick a governor, and ideally one who delivers both a constituency and a state that’s not already solidly Democratic. I’d say Richardson, Sebelius, Strickland, and Kaine are the right short list.
By “core Democratic base voters,” I presume we mean “swing voters who preferred Hillary to Obama,” yeah?
Of course, the fact that any one constituency preferred Hillary to Obama doesn’t mean that all loved her so much that they would follow her wherever she led. It doesn’t even mean that any loved her that much, although I know some did. It merely means that given the choice between those two, they preferred Hillary.
Given another choice, they might not.
I’m biased, but I’d prefer Edwards; he’s inoffensive to Obama’s supporters among swing voters, and he’s appealing to a number of the constituencies that preferred Hillary.
I’d be happier with Richardson or McCaskill than Hillary, maybe happier with Sebelius, but Hillary’s preferable to the remaining options, especially Webb and Nunn.
I’m willing to bet that white rural voters would back Nunn over Clinton.
I think, at this point, it’s time for our party to unite and work towards increasing turnout in November. Am I excited about Obama? No. However, there are a ton of down ballot races that are very important.
We will need a united Democratic Party in order to increase our majorities in Congress.
Like I told sndeak, it’s great to support your candidate to no end, but blind loyalty can have disastrous effects.
An Obama/Clinton ticket is definitely not my first choice, though it might work. I’d prefer for Obama to choose a centrist or even a conservative Democrat, though it’s not going to happen.
He can’t win in November without her. He can’t win core Democratic base voters without her own the ticket.
the main reason i don’t buy that is he is overwhelmingly winning the AA vote (shocking) which is pretty much the core of the DP. Further, he is leading in all the national polls (or doing much better than HRC) he is winning more indies than anyone else…and HRC frankly hasn’t won the base Dems, hence the reason she is not winning the primary.
While I certainly have my doubts about November, at the same time I don’t want to underestimate the guys’ ability to attract voters. He’s pretty good.
At first I didn’t like the Obama/Cinton ticket because it doesn’t set up well for 2016, but someone I know named Catherine suggested that HRC could be V.P. for one term and step aside for a newer, shinier model. I know a lot of people will say her (and Bill’s) ego wouldn’t allow that, but that sure would be a good set up.
He can’t win in November without her. He can’t win core Democratic base voters without her own the ticket.
Some can bitch and moan about how disastrous this will be for the Party, but look at reality and understand if she continues to get her same supporters and he gets new independents then we, Dems, might just outnumber the Republicans in the fall.
Which VP candidate can get – white rural voters, women over 50, hispanics, and voters making less than $35,000 to the polls on election day? Who? It ain’t Edwards cause he couldn’t bring it home on three different occasions, its not Sebelius – no one knows her outside of Kansas (and no offense Flack, but Kansas has about as much diversity as Vermont and Dean had), Sam Nunn hasn’t being in touch with any Dem voters in so long – not even sure they still know ya Sam, not Wesley Clark (again with the retread), not Richardson (let’s just not laugh about how well his own pres. campaign went), definitely not McCaskell (that too many junior senators with no experience on 1 ticket), don’t make me spit on the laptop to even metnion Al Gore. Not Webb cause Obama can get those same white men. Daschle – Can it get even more boring on the campaign trail?
So when they hatefest stops, somebody please tell me who other than Hillary can and will get those key demographic voters out to the polls?
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