Heads up staffers, tips to avoid a Health Care “Town Hell”

icon_conversation.jpgWe’ve all seen the headlines, angry mobs shouting down Congressman at local Town Halls from Florida to St. Louis. One Dem Congressman’s life has been threatened.

I’m going to suggest a couple things that might help make these events go a little smoother.

Do some research on the local activist groups- a quick search of this site will give you a well needed heads up if counter protesters are being organized.

Make sure that everyone who attends is required to sign in. Set up enough tables, with staff and or volunteers to enforce this. If it were me, I’d have separate sign in’s for constituents, and “visitors” and make sure that the constituents are given first priority for seating and entry. Have a few crowd control folks sprinkled about, it will not hurt at Hank Johnson’s event, if they just happen to look like the front line of the McNair and Miller Grove Football teams.

Do not allow any signs to be brought in, all in the interest of not impeding anyone’s ability to see of course.

Clearly state that the Town Hall will be conducted based on a posted/distributed agenda. Assign a time keeper.

Begin the meeting on time-or if possible sightly early- this will minimize chair squirming and lessen any build up of tension. Video-tape everything, especially the crowd.

Do not offer refreshments, and turn up the air slightly. Folks won’t want to stay if they are hungry and a bit too warm.

Start the meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silent reflection. If you want to include a faith leader, so be it.

Immediately after that, if you have one, use the faith leader to announce the meeting “ground rules”, no shouting, be respectful, only one person speaks at a time etc.. clearly state that those who violate the rules will be escorted out.

Questions should be filled out on 4 x 6 cards. Distribute them as people arrive and while they are waiting. Have folks circulate collecting them and give them to one person to go through. That person can sift through the crazy and select about 8 or 9 questions to ask the Congress person.

An open mic and free style question asking is an open invitation for problems. We’ve all seen what happens, the folks get up to the mic and ramble on about an article they read five years ago on an unrelated topic, how they were elected 3rd grade class president, something Oprah said… blah blah blah.. never having arrived at a relevant question.

Ignore this advice at your own peril.


While it’s always hard to tell elected officials to not speak too long- this is a case where you really don’t want them to go on and on.

They need to hit as many “talking points” in as few sentences as possible. Keep it simple and on message.

Clear up any “misinformation” about the bill immediately. For example G-ma and Pop-Pop will not be interviewed and then “whacked” by the government, we’re all not moving to the countryside to work in labor camps, undocumented workers will not be covered, small businesses will not close etc.

Staff should be prepared with the phone numbers to police and sheriff in their speed dials.

Staff should also have walked the event space and determined at least one if not two other exits, and be prepared to move their congress person out in a hurry.

If you are in the planning stages now, select a room 1/3 smaller than you think you need. Don’t book a place large enough for an unruly crowd. Keep the setting smaller and more engaging.

Anyone who feels they didn’t get a chance to “speak” can make a appointment with staff later.

Those of us attending also have a role to play keeping the situation under control, don’t encourage bad behavior-for petes sake don’t laugh at them, or challenge them.

When you take your seat greet the folks around you with a simple, Hi! I’m your neighbor- won’t this be interesting! If they are friendly then great, if they are grumpy and wearing two different color socks, it might be best to chat about the weather or what they had for dinner.


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44 responses to “Heads up staffers, tips to avoid a Health Care “Town Hell””

  1. Mel Avatar
    Mel

    I feel you IRE.

  2. innerredneckexposed Avatar

    MelGX: I would pay to have a JMP V. Z section of BforD.

  3. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    Big Pharma is fully on board, AHIP is trying to kill a public plan but other than that they are willing to support the bill. Why?

    You think they don’t like having 50 million new customers? A few rules here and there don’t make a difference. They’ve done guarenteed issue and community rating in other states and all it does is jack up the price of insurance.

  4. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    More thought on what’s going on @ the Town Halls: Via Ed Kilgore & The Democratic Strategist.org:

    http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/strategist/2009/08/there_are_certain_very_instruc.php

    JMP

  5. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    But I thought you said that Big Pharma was ‘on board’ & the AHIP was ‘standing down’?

    I’ve got little worry about goal posts. It’s a nuclear war, remember? It needs a several pronged attack. One as a pure Moral Crusade BTW too. And it obviously needs mass mobilization, which has been slow in coming from the forces of light & progress. Again nothing much gets accomplished just sitting back and whining & 2nd & 3rd guessing. There needs to be serious re-engagement on several fronts at the same time. And yes, if that means flooding the airwaves with real life tragic stories about how the HMO’s actually Did kill Granny/Gramps & sis & sonny, we should raise the moola for it. This is not ‘moving the goal posts’ It’s getting control of the game once again to be able to score much of anything. And it’s about looking at how to win differently and using more of what we’ve got and some of what we can hope to get. Again, think anew and think about the possible. Now. Before it slips away on the swords of yes, the barbarians that seek only destruction, greed, plunder & more death . You know, your fellows that are not ‘doing the lobbying’ with what? A half a billion dollars in one year for certain?! JMP

  6. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    Here’s the problem, we keep moving the goal posts back, the HMO’s and big pharma keep thinking we’re weaker and keep digging the knife in deeper. This is the sort of spinelessness these people love.

  7. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    I’m not saying it’s an ideal situation either. Nothing ever is. I’m w/ Mr. K on the Single payer/Canadian plan, but that’s not going to happen. Should it have been proposed? Sure. But woulda, coulda etc. That does not make the Congressional leadership strategic visionaries, or even very laudable on the issue, but they really seldom are.

    It’s also kicking the issue right where it needs to be. In everyone’s laps & inside every home. Right now? It’s a vague but threatening abstraction for too many. Now turning that dynamic around might take too much time, (which is why the bullying tactics are often so successful). So here? You get the possibility of a fuller slice of what you want, and you get to work out the kinks on a smaller scale at the same time. And economically? It would probably work too. The problems would be easier to address & work out without overhauling the system every decade or so like they’re probably going to need to do in MA.

    I’d have Dennis say that he’ll now offer an optional single payer plan too. Hell even a ‘single payer lite’ for any state that want to take advantage of it. And those unfortunate ‘retrograde states’ offering just the status quo ‘plus’? They’d suddenly have plenty of energized real life Activists bird dogging them asking for single payer or the public option in their states. They’d suddenly be much less competitive for industry & business relocation. They could have real troubles competing with those states with the added comparative advantage of good effective health care. And they might learn that it pays to do good. Now, Yes, this would take longer. I’ve found that people often are slow learners. Especially the ones who claim to be among the ‘better educated’ BTW. It would be a real life test of everything we’re talking about. And I for one have the confidence to believe that it’s another way we’d get what we’d want in the end. But if you want it done, it’s a viable avenue to explore. Unlike what Ron Wyden is up to BTW. JMP

  8. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    Optional public plan is so laughable I don’t know what to think. Optional single payer at least made a lick of sense, when Kucinich had his amendment passed, because it wasn’t being proposed by the leadership at the federal level. Optional public option state by state — this is kicking this battle into a position where it never reach fruition or any level of prominence.

  9. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Make it optional for the States, [Voluntary]:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/to-dick-durbin-before-sur_b_255247.html

    Via the Huff Post:

    Paul Abrams

    Posted: August 10, 2009 01:14 AM

    “To Dick Durbin: Before Surrendering the Public Plan, Just Make It Optional

    [Quoted at length, not in full]

    “This was first suggested (“An Offer on a ‘Public Option’ Republicans Can’t Refuse: Let States Determine Whether to Adopt It”, June 25, 2009) purely as a political strategy. But, making the public plan optional is not only better political strategy, it is better public policy in our federal system. Federal authority really should be exercised only when necessary, and the burden of proof ought to be on those who assert its necessity. Those states not wishing to partake of the public plan ought not to be provided any additional benefits as compensation, but ought not be treated as pariahs.

    The optional public plan can pass. There will no longer be any excuse for a member of the Democratic caucus to vote against cloture (and, if they do, they should be stripped of their seniority). We now know that Senator Byrd can make it to the Senate to cast a vote. That provides 59 votes for cloture. If Senator Kennedy cannot make it for the cloture vote, making the public plan optional ought to attract the Maine Senators to vote to allow a vote on health care reform.

    Deference to federalism is also good 21st century progressive politics. One does not have to subscribe to the Republicans’ nonsense of government-as-ogre to prefer individual control over one’s life choices. Progressives who assume that millennials, who shun the rightwing because of their lies and divisiveness, are naturally attuned to federal power do so at their electoral peril. Today’s progressivism is not yesterday’s.

    Progressives make a fundamental error, therefore, when they do not take advantage of opportunities to create policies that do not require the assertion of federal authority. On energy and the environment, for example, no such opportunity exists — indeed, even federal authority is inadequate, world action is required.

    Health care reform, however, is different. It provides an opportunity for accomplishing the goals of reform, while enjoying the benefits of federalism. And, in so doing, enabling the reform to be enacted in the first place.” [End cite]

    Just a thought. But if we can’t do this with 60 votes now, we’ll not be able to do it for another 40 years. Which is pretty scary to contemplate, and will cost us plenty. JMP

  10. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    The conversations around the office is that the public option — which was itself a weak compromise — is not going to be able to get through the Senate. Some people are falling back on “it’ll find its way in through the conference committee.”

    My personal opinion is that one might make it, but it’ll be so weak that it won’t have any real impact. Meanwhile, insurers and drug companies get a gigantic windfall of tax payer dollars.

    More people get care, but we further bankrupt ourselves and the people responsible for the problem get richer. A pyhric victory.

  11. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    That’s how carefully they’re hiding what they do so no one can figure it out until it’s too late. But no, I don’t ‘trust’ them, no one does, and that’s a very good thing & useful as well. We can and should use that as a rallying cry. ‘Who do you trust more, your Government or your insurance company. That’s where even the PO would win hands down!

    What’s described is a very common practice BTW, and again rarely comes to light, unless someone is carefully looking for trends in emails & letters. And seemingly? Few staffers have much time for a careful analysis of same.

    So again, Information to allies & the Media is a very valuable commodity. Why we need to hold everyone to much, much higher journo standards than Fox, or indeed even the once august NYT is just beyond me however.

    I say we should have the guts to subpoena the lot of them after rescinding their tax exemptions & bulking up on present day lax regulations from states & feds alike. But the truth? Will ever remain elusive. JMP

  12. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    I wrote about Express Scripts in the Progress Report last week.

    Do you know what happened? The Vice President of Blue Cross of California wrote to us to tell us that it is not an insurance company and isn’t affilaited with AHIP (just incase we didn’t know that, which we did)

    That’s how tightly these people are watching this.

  13. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Always nice to know. The money? Is really, really hard to trace now though. And it’s being spent quite lavishly from every report I’ve seen. It’s also important.

    But bottom line, this is the dynamic of what we’re talking about here. Via Media Matters: MMFA

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-e-burns/an-open-memo-to-progressi_b_255918.html

    The infamous ‘Brooks Brothers Riot’ in Fl that shut down the vote counting in 2000? It took time to ID those guys too. Longer still to actually realize that they were all being coordinated from a camper van specially brought to the scene by the national GOP. That only came about months later.

    We’ve got to do better. Mobs don’t just ‘appear’ Exactly on time in a week. There’s plenty of coordination, supplementation, transportation, & direction. And we’ve only seen part of it. JMP

  14. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    We’ve been investigating the mobs for a week, and most people who are doing stuff on them are using our research. They’re not AHIP or PhRMA they are Republicans and ideologically right organizations and some corp. outfits tied to Republicans.

    The health care industry for the most part is supporting neutered health care reform. PhRMA is openly running ads in favor of it.

  15. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Yep. That’s the point. Way down in the ever confusing weeds of ‘inside baseball’, and yes Hopeless.

    Z says: “There are 1300 insurers, I’m not suprised if a few aren’t on message.”

    Yes, once again. We (you) hope to know what we don’t know, and what we can’t hope to know soon.

    And that makes us all feel nice and comfy about the wolf pack at the door.

    You’ll hope to try and impute their motives with perhaps some ‘proper’ psychoanalysis. The rest of the world? Really already knows why they’re there.

    But can we ask politely that all/some? of your smart colleagues care to Follow them & Investigate the Mobs? That might be helpful here. Thanks. JMP

  16. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    AHIP =/= DCI group. There are 1300 insurers, I’m not suprised if a few aren’t on message.

    You’re being very abrasive, yet you and I want the same thing and the big difference between us is our understanding of the strategy of those who oppose what we want. Aren’t you being a bit unreasonable?

    “Good grief get a damn room. No one wants to see this sh*t.”

    I don’t want to make out with him. Do you? O_o

  17. innerredneckexposed Avatar

    Good grief get a damn room. No one wants to see this sh*t.

  18. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Again, Not difficult to find.

    Via Sourcewatch:

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=DCI_Group

    Not too hard…

    http://www.prwatch.org/search/node/DCI+Group

    To like do research Z…

    http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/corpwatch?q=DCI+Group&is=corpwatch.org&x=19&y=8

    So can I haves your job?

    Just wondering. JMP

  19. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Amazing. Again the Queen of Quibbling. And not reading, Z.

    Here’s what I wrote above:

    “Now exactly how the industry is funneling money into these various yes, myriad hidden lobbying fronts will be probably yes, sadly, a question of history. We’ll only later learn the truth possibly to our regret. Which is as planned and designed. They’ve done it before (there’s very few reporting requirements here beyond Congress & DC), and they’re doing it again. Quite successfully. Again, look to history for some guidance here.”

    And strangely enough, as you’re actually watching the industry literally help strangle reform to death you and evidently your fellow colleagues (!?) want to yes, quibble that This Time They’re Doing it Differently? It’s not the full frontal assault that’s no longer possible as it was before, but the sneak flanking attack by subversive ‘irregulars’, some, yes Paid, some volunteers’!?

    Z says: “Their strategy is to be behind the scenes with lobbying dollars and back room dealmaking. They do NOT want to become the public face of opposition, because they’re incredibly unpopular”.

    Quibbling! Are they No Less effective at destroying the chance for reform? Err No, actually. But this war is different & being fought differently and this leaves all you smart ‘fellows’ up in DC, well frankly mystified? That’s it? You Know that they’re at least spending $1.4 Mill a Day, and this does not add up to you? Not a ‘significant enough effort’? Just about what’s typically spent on media in a Presidential campaign pro-rated for a year?

    You claim you need tax receipts from some mythical insider accountant who might come forward on his deathbed when he’s being denied coverage by the same firm for his chronic diseases? Some 20 years hence? Perhaps a forgotten small aspect of a ancient failed reform history. Is that the bottom line here guys?

    Heaven help us then. You’re worse than useless. You evidently don’t understand the problem, the politics, nor the need, or the urgency. By the time you do your NYT/newspaper routine (which BTW, NEVER was your style or MO before), it’ll be years later. Count on it. We’ve seen it before. Not so coincidentally also about the CIA, another ‘phantasm’ that you were deeply deluded about too. Did your new employer ever see some of your sillier posts here on that score?

    They’re not ‘phantasms’ if they exist, are active & are actively subverting Democracy. Again following the well hidden sources of the money will take many months. Then you and your crew can happily do the infamous ‘post-mortem’ on ‘what went wrong’ with the ‘ill fated reform efforts’. Yeah that’s the ticket. It’s Much more satisfying & productive than say, actual reform. I’m sure we’ll be all properly blamed for not being willing to listen to all your august ‘wisdom’ over the necessity of full & proper sourcing of super secret industry deals.

    It’s not like we haven’t all seen this story before either. Live & learn. Something. Please. If for nothing more than the sanity of future readers of history!

    http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/08/lets_mark_this_moment_in_the_h.php

    JMP

  20. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    By the way, why don’t you try actually reading what I write? The insurance lobbying campaign on health care is gigantic. It’s 1.4 million dollars a day.

    They’re “undoubtedly” being funded by AHIP isn’t proof. Trust me, if you find evidence of that we would absolutely love it here at ThinkProgress because we’d take that story and run with it. But it’s not true. Their strategy is to be behind the scenes with lobbying dollars and back room dealmaking. They do NOT want to become the public face of opposition, because they’re incredibly unpopular.

  21. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    That’s a posting from DailyKos that someone put on the Dean site, not Dr. Dean himself.

    I’m actually trying to help you out here. I’m not saying PhRMA and big insurance aren’t doing everything they can here, but they are distinctly seperate from what’s happening at the mob riot-routines.

    The difference is that the Republicans want to kill any bill because that’s who they are right now. They’re the Party of No, so on and so forth.

    The insurance and drug industry are actually trying to game the legislative system so that they win at the end of all this. That’s why AHIP and the rest are holding their fire. They haven’t sponsored one single television commercial. PhRMA is running commercials in support of the plan because it will not touch them at all.

    It’s important you understand your enemy, and not make up phantasms about them.

  22. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Somehow Z, You still don’t get it.

    “A random BlueCross employee at one of these?”

    Yeah. That’s the ticket. It’s always random. Just a coincidence to rubes.

    Like Dr. Howard Dean perhaps?

    http://standwithdrdean.com/2009/08/05/ahip-undoubtedly-funding-the-fake-protestors

    And of course former Industry PR flack Wendell Potter thinks the same:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/5/761946/-AHIP-money-undoubtedly-funding-fake-protestors

    “WENDELL POTTER: “INSURANCE INDUSTRY HAS HIRED SCORES AND SCORES OF LOBBYISTS TO WORK ON THEIR BEHALF”

    [Insert Zaid typical quibble Here! They’re Just all Lobbyists! But still Unregistered homely, hidden gunslingers…]

    Now do some real work on this group, which is yes, just One step removed from the industry principals I mentioned. One of many too!

    Via the DailyKos Link above:

    “Here’s a quick education on a Washington outfit called the DCI Group. DCI is a big player in what you’re seeing evolve across the country.

    In 2002, DCI helped kill the Patients Bill of Rights. Now DCI is behind the phony protestors, and they’re undoubtedly being funded by AHIP and others.”

    You guys should be on this. Do we have to do your jobs for you too?

    Geez. Please. PLEASE. Tell me that they’re all not the same naive rubes as you’ve proven to be time & time again here & elsewhere up @ TP.

    Thanks. For your stalwart & self aggrandizing& self congratulatory & ‘comforting’ delusions. Again I’m sure it’ll help mightily in the battle! JMP

  23. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    We’re asking people if they see anything at the town halls to go ahead and take video and send it to us. We will credit you

    thinkprogress@americanprogressaction.org

    We really want someone to go to Broun’s this evening if someone’s in the area

  24. JayT Avatar
    JayT

    Many of the suggestions regarding how to maintain order are on target. However some I disagree with, but I will only mention one. The person making the code of conduct ground rules should be a very large police officer, not a pastor. The isurgents in the crowd are bullies and are not afraid of a pastor. Bullies only fear someone “bigger and badder” so the person making the announcement needs to be someone they know is not playing. Sad but true. I will be at the Hank Johnson townhall tonight, so wish us well.

  25. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    We knew that, but we didn’t use that. A random BlueCross employee at one of these? So what?

    You think they’re going to protest when they’re about to get 50 million new paying (taxpayer dollars, mostly) customers?

  26. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    This is not hard to find either. An Anthem Blue Cross staffer protesting at a CT town hall, in his employee polo shirt. But yeah. Minor occurrence. Nothing to see here, move along. The goons? Have been partially bought & paid for a long time ago.

    Hat tip to the excellent:

    http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/

    Original post from MyLeftNutmeg.com:

    “…nothing sponsored by anybody”

    by: ctblogger

    Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 12:44:48 PM EDT

    http://myleftnutmeg.com/diary/11646/nothing-sponsored-by-anybody

    JMP

  27. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    This is not hard to find either. An Anthem Blue Cross staffer protesting at a CT town hall, in his employee polo shirt. But yeah. Minor occurrence. Nothing to see here, move along. The goons? Have been partially bought & paid for a long time ago.

    Hat tip to the excellent:

    http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/

    Original post from MyLeftNutmeg.com:

    “…nothing sponsored by anybody”

    by: ctblogger

    Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 12:44:48 PM EDT

    http://myleftnutmeg.com/diary/11646/nothing-sponsored-by-anybody

    JMP

  28. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Saints preserve us Z, You might actually be doing something useful. This is most gratifying to hear. And you’re no longer a UGA student as in ‘UGA Liberal’, since you’ve *graduated*. (Still kinda making you ‘UGA folk’ however, right?). And Yes, you’ve identified yourself as a ‘Libertarian’ in the past. And admitted you did not actually vote for Obama, if I recall correctly too. So let’s only hope that you’re still capable of learning things from some of the fine staff @ ThinkProgress.

    And yes, as shown again above, despite the gratifying prospect that you’re actually employed, you’re still quibbling.

    Bob Reich meet Z:

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/robert_reich/2009/08/astroturf-along-american-highw.php

    “Astroturf Along American Highways, and the Republican Plan

    August 5, 2009, 8:19AM

    “On our drive across America, my son and I have spotted spiffy white vans emblazoned with phrases like “ObamaCare will raise your taxes” and “ObamaCare will put bureaucrats in charge of your health.” Just outside Omaha we drove close enough to take a peek at the driver, who looked as dutifully professional as the spanking new van he was driving.

    This isn’t grass roots. It’s Astroturf. The vans carry the logo “Americans for Prosperity,” one of the Washington front groups orchestrating the fight against universal health. They’re using Congress’s August recess to heckle Democratic representatives when they meet with their constituents, stage erszatz local anti-universal health rallies, and fill home-town media with carefully-crafted, market-tested messages demonizing healthcare reform.

    The Republican party’s fingerprints are all over this. FreedomWorks, another group now Astroturfing its way around America, is chaired by former House Republican Leader Dick Armey. Texas Republican Pete Sessions, who chairs the National Republican Campaign Committee, says the days of civil town halls are “now over.‚Äù Key Republican funders are forking out big bucks. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, whose ties to the GOP are legion, announced in June it would ‚Äúdevelop a sweeping national advocacy campaign encompassing advertising, education, political activities, new media and grassroots organizing” to battle universal health and other Democratic initiatives.

    The Republicans’ goal isn’t ideological. It’s power. Republicans smell 1994 all over again. That’s when they defeated Clinton’s healthcare plan — and in doing so convinced large numbers of Americans that Clinton and the Democrats couldn’t be trusted. This enabled the Republicans to retake control of Congress. From then on, they blocked Clinton’s agenda. They even gave themselves a shot at the presidency in 1996.”

    [The rest at the TPM link]

    So again, he’s actually saying essentially what I’m saying. Now there’s plenty of other ‘stuff going on. Some you might confirm with your sources, some might be only suggested at. Having lived though the Clinton years my point is that our ideological allies need to keep the end goal in mind. That can be complicated. Especially for the many folks with little sense of political history. Ditto for getting accurate, timely & useful info out to the press & allies. There’s plenty of ‘inside baseball’ to be had.

    Fringe actors can and have had tremendous impacts on our body politic. That goes way back well beyond Richard Hofstadter’s famous ‘The Paranoid Style in American Politics’ (1964), and also involves a tragic legacy of widespread politically directed mob violence, especially in the South.

    So the yes, very sudden mass hysteria & violent rank hatreds being whipped up by various forces in this ‘debate’ presently is stuff we’ve largely not seen for almost 40-50 years. It’s pretty heady & frightening stuff, if you’ve been paying much attention at all. How, when & why Obama may have made some side ‘deals’ to hopefully divide the opposition to reform is one thing. That’s worthy of reporting. At the moment though your claims of what the industry writ large is up to is lacking in sourcing & wider understanding. And we’ve got enough evidence to show that the money is flowing readily from somewhere. It’s almost certainly not just the GOP coffers here either.

    One of the most valuable things to know in any battle for reform is who the real larger enemy is. And to be able to successfully retain the vital focus on same when battling for the end results. Again, I’ll insist that it’s not really Rahm Emanuel or Obama, no matter how much you’ve expressed your evident distaste & distain for both in the past. It’s the forces of darkness coalescing around killing off ANY reform of ANY kind, including but not limited to the Chamber of Commerce, the NFIB, Biz Roundtable, various allied industry groups, and of course their handmaidens the Rethugs. No one here or in DC should be forming up yet another of the same miserable ‘circular firing squads’ to ensure that these forces of evil are able to divide us from the decent end goals of reform.

    Now exactly how the industry is funneling money into these various yes, myriad hidden lobbying fronts will be probably yes, sadly, a question of history. We’ll only later learn the truth possibly to our regret. Which is as planned and designed. They’ve done it before (there’s very few reporting requirements here beyond Congress & DC), and they’re doing it again. Quite successfully. Again, look to history for some guidance here.

    Good luck in your new post. And please listen & learn from the fine knowledgeable folks in the entire shop. It’s the only way to grow anywhere. It’s always good to hear that you’re gainfully employed at something useful though. Congrats. Now can we get the rank bastards destroying our health & economy? They don’t now live in the WH either. JMP

  29. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    And I don’t know why you both called me Libertarian (?!?!) and a “UGA” folk. I don’t affiliate with the Libertarians and I don’t attend UGA.

    I currently write for ThinkProgress:

    http://thinkprogress.org/author/Zaid%20Jilani/

  30. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    I don’t know why exactly you keep quoting my own website and team back to me, we know all about FreedomWorks as you show with your links, but the fact is that AHIP has almost completely held its fire, and PhRMA is actively supporting the health bills because Obama already made gigantic concessions to them.

    FreedomWorks is a general right-wing outfit, funded by a lot of corp. folks, but it’s pretty fringe. The actual health care industry is sitting pretty with this health care bill.

    Robert Reich (no commie) has pretty good commentary on it here:

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/robert_reich/2009/08/how-the-white-houses-deal-with.php?ref=fpblg

  31. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    It’s funny you mention Rachel Maddow, because she used our memos and documentation to write that piece (my colleague Lee Fang’s stuff in particular).

    It’s not the industry, it’s the ideological and Republican folks. The industry is doing lobbying behind the scenes. They’re smart, in that they know they can’t become the public face of opposition.

    They’d also love a “reform” bill to come without any kind of new public insurance plan, meaning we’re basically taking a trillion tax payer dollars and handing them to the HMO/PPO’s. That’s the possibility few are talking about.

  32. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Again the industry is carefully ‘greenwashing’ their efforts, and yes, they’re behind & paying for plenty of this BS. Look to the Rachel Maddow MSNBC clips for the last week. Geez, it’s not like we don’t have these people on tape. So no, I’ll take some of what Biz weak with a few grains of salt Z. JMP

  33. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    I just think it’s sad that one one side we have outright fanatics and crazies and on the other side we have a behind the scenes effort to kill any positive effect this legislation could have.

  34. Drew Avatar
    Drew

    The health insurance industry may have little to do with this, but to the extent that the less hysterical conservatives argue that the health insurance industry is efficient, benevolent, and wrongly maligned by mean liberals, it’s worth noting that the health insurance industry exists to take your money and deny you care, and that nothing short of reform will stop it.

    But yeah, the crazy seems to be funded by far-right conservative and libertarian foundations

    with few overt ties to industry. Which is probably why they have been so willing to embrace such reckless rhetoric and ignore the violence that has already resulted. Industry would be too concerned with their image to endorse that. But for the right it would be SOP.

  35. Jules Avatar
    Jules

    As we coined last night, the “mob” is really the SwiftboatBirthbaggers come to town.

    Or the Teabirthers for Freedom.. you pick

  36. griftdrift Avatar

    Or have your picture taken by a wild eyed blogger

  37. JerryT Avatar
    JerryT

    And wear nice clothes and make sure your sign is spelled correctly because you’ll probably be on TV.

  38. Zaid Avatar
    Zaid

    Of all the research we’ve been doing, we’ve been finding the mob thing is more of a conservative ideologue and Republican thing than it is a health insurer thing.

    The health insurers so far have held their fire on things like this because their tactic isn’t to just kill any health care bill, it’s to shape it in their favor.

    I wrote about that here:

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/08/blue-dogs-insurance/

    I encourage you to read the full businessweek article linked to. I included quite a bit more but it got edited out, and the names of some of the Washington insiders helping out with this might surprise you.

  39. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Oh the ‘They’re coming to Liquidate your Granny meme’ is going strong from the Rethugs over at Redstate, this from the head lying Thug hizself:

    Via Media Matters: [See link for several cites]:

    http://mediamattersaction.org/blog/200908070001

    “RedState Is In The Business Of Spreading Disgusting Rumors

    9 hours and 29 minutes ago by Melinda Warner

    RedState’s Erick Erickson has posted a new piece on the support that AARP has given the House health insurance reform bill, but instead of using factual information in his column he stoops to using scare tactics and fear mongering.

    Erickson writes:

    Does the AARP’s members know about the endorsement of a healthcare plan that requires seniors to get instruction every five years on assisted suicide – a fact the AARP calls a “myth”?

    Multiple sources have debunked this ridiculous, desperate rumor that has been spread with the intent to frighten the American public.

    It is vile that Erickson and his ultra-right cronies are propagating this lie. No Democrat – or any other politician/policy wonk/federal employee – wants to encourage euthanasia. The only people you hear talking about it are the Republicans.

    Erickson should take the time to actually read the legislation, instead of relying on the biased and false interpretations of the likes of Betsy McCaughey. If he did, he would see that it is clear that the provision ensures that senior citizens have access to professional counseling in the event they do not have access to someone or their own doctor is not available to answer the myriad questions that seniors report having unanswered.

    Any insinuation otherwise, any attempt to suggest that Democrats’ plan to decrease cost is to kill people, is foul. The attempt to continue the spread of these lies is pathetic – and shows just how far the Republicans are willing to go when the facts aren’t on their side.

    ‚ÄìMelinda Warner”

    Here’s the independent non-partisan FactCheck.org on the same Baseless Lie & fear mongering:

    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/

    Why Lie continually about this miserable yet vital end of life topic? Because EE & the rest of the goon squad have nothing of substance to contribute to any real debate, and only have sneering contempt for democracy and its normal practices & operation. Where’s the GOP health care reform plan? Why pay, form up & send goon squads to shut down legitimate debate& questions from constituents?

    Is there any moral right for any insurance company to deny you care After you’ve paid into them for years for your health insurance? To only be denied care when you’re sick & desperately needing care? For some bogus invented ‘pre-existing condition’ (like acne preventing you from getting cancer treatment)? (Yes, that’s an actual case, of course!) Is this deeply cruel & immoral yet widespread insurance industry practice of ‘rescission’ for sick people a moral one? Is it the right Family Values? For who’s family & when? Is making millions off of the needlessly sick, dead & dying a ‘right’ that the few Insurance CEO’s possess that just happens to supersede the rights of oh say nearly a 100 Million other Americans with either No insurance or who are Under insured? [See above DailyKos.com post & here for more numbers: familiesusa.org/]. Just asking. This is a fight we can & must win over the forces of yes, darkness & evil. JMP

  40. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    More facts, figures and numbers via the DailyKos.com

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/4/761605/-18,000-People-Murdered,-$133m-In-Bribes-to-Congress

    Go to the link for the Complete Citations. ALL facts and figures & Stats are backed up.

    “18,000 People Murdered, $133m In Bribes to Congress

    by EmperorHadrian

    18,000 People Murdered, $133m In Bribes to CongressTweet this submit to reddit Share This

    Mon Aug 03, 2009 at 11:08:54 PM PDT

    Let me just mention some simple numbers, to illustrate what is at stake, and what is so wrong about the current system.

    Before the recession hit,

    18,000 people were dying every year due to lack of health insurance. The number is now beyond 22,000.

    During the second quarter of this year, $133,271,660 in “campaign contributions” (read: bribes) were distributed to congress. That is almost $1,500,000 per day.

    Polls show that most Americans are happy with their health insurance. That makes sense, since a majority of Americans with health insurance have government health insurance (mostly Medicare, Medicaid and VA insurance).

    Some more facts:

    2,200 people died in a single month this year because they didn’t have health insurance.

    Family premiums will almost double in the next decade, to $22,000 per year.

    While 52 million Americans are uninsured, another 25 million are underinsured.

    Meanwhile, as illustrated by the massive bribes they are distributing, the health insurance companies are doing pretty well.

    CEO of UnitedHealth Group- Stephen Hemsley (aprox. $13 million annual compensation in 2007)

    CEO of Wellpoint- Angela Braly ( aprox. $10 million annual compensation in 2008)

    CEO of Cigna- H. Edward Hanway ($23 million annual compensation)

    CEO of AETNA- Ronald Williams ( $30 million annual compensation)

    CEO of Health Plan that operates Kaiser Permanente- George Halverson ( $2.2 million salary in 2002-does not include full compensation)

    Meanwhile, health insurer Aetna recently reported their earnings, and their masters on Wall Street and at Goldman Sachs were not pleased. $350 million in profits for three months just was not enough. Aetna, who last year paid out $6,000,000 in dividends to Wall Street, found new, innovative ways of murdering people for profit.

    Citing higher-than-anticipated ‘medical costs’ that led the company to ‘misprice’ its health plans. Aetna said it is taking steps to address the rising costs…Aetna plans to raise prices on commercial health plans, likely resulting in terminations of higher cost customers, and to closely monitor health providers to make sure they comply with contracts

    And that $133 million in bribes paid out to congress in three months? It would have been enough to save 7,000 cancer patients.

    The for profit insurance industry: literally making a killing.”

    Lack of adequate health care is Killing People Here & Now Hourly. The Insurance Industry does not give a damn. They want their unfettered profits. No matter how many bodies it might cost. And most of the people protesting? They’re already getting Govt. Health care as most of them are already on Medicare & Medicaid! JMP

  41. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    More info: These are the official Health insurance Reforms that are being pushed by the WH. This is what ‘Obama care’ means. Humanity. Care. Real insurance worthy of the name. A moral imperative & right to care.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-insurance-consumer-protections/

    “Health Insurance Consumer Protections

    THE SECURITY YOU GET from health insurance reform:

    * No Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions

    * Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

    * No Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays

    * Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

    * No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care

    * Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

    * No Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill

    * Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

    * No Gender Discrimination

    * Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

    * No Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage

    * Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

    * Extended Coverage for Young Adults

    * Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

    * Guaranteed Insurance Renewal

    * Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won’t be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.”

    Here’s the Official Myth vs Fact on the ‘They’ll Kill Granny/Gramps! Meme:

    http://blumenauer.house.gov/images/stories/documents/myth%20vs%20fact.pdf

    And of course the excellent

    baselinescenario with:

    “You do Not have Health Insurance!”

    baselinescenario.com/2009/08/05/you-do-not-have-health-insurance/

    “The Baseline Scenario

    What happened to the global economy and what we can do about it

    You Do Not Have Health Insurance”

    “Right now, it appears that the biggest barrier to health care reform is people who think that it will hurt them. According to a New York Times poll, ‚Äú69 percent of respondents in the poll said they were concerned that the quality of their own care would decline if the government created a program that covers everyone.‚Äù Since most Americans currently have health insurance, they see reform as a poverty program ‚Äì something that helps poor people and hurts them. If that‚Äôs what you think, then this post is for you.

    You do not have health insurance. Let me repeat that. You do not have health insurance. (Unless you are over 65, in which case you do have health insurance. I’ll come back to that later.)

    The point of insurance is to protect you against unlikely but damaging events. You are generally happy to pay premiums in all the years that nothing goes wrong (your house doesn‚Äôt burn down), because in exchange your insurer promises to be there in the one year that things do go wrong (your house burns down). That‚Äôs why, when shopping for insurance, you are supposed to look for a company that is financially sound ‚Äì so they will be there when you need them….”

    Again I hope folks pass this stuff around and that it helps. Cheers, JMP

  42. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Here’s the whole enchilada folks. Here from the Huffington Post is the ever helpful rebuttal, line by line of All the lies disseminated by the lying Rethug snakes. The infamous email you’ve all gotten from older relations & scared oldsters:

    Linda Bergthold

    Health policy expert

    Posted: August 1, 2009 09:18 PM :

    “So it Begins — the August Attack on Health Care Reform”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-bergthold/and-so-it-begins—-the-a_b_249354.html

    “This week I received a mass email that exhorted the recipients to pray for our country because of the disaster surely to befall on us if health care reform is passed. It is very important for all of us to understand what health reform is about because being able to respond to these distortions is important. So I went through every charge and answered it and sent it back to the huge email list to which it had been distributed. I wish I had seen the excellent rebuttal done by Politifact before I spent all this time, but it’s encouraging to know we have multiple ways to toss this stuff back…”

    Here’s the Politifact factcheck of the infamous & ridiculous lies & charges:

    “E-mail ‘analysis’ of health bill needs a check-up”

    By Angie Drobnic Holan

    Published on Thursday, July 30th, 2009 at 5:08 p.m.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/

    Hope this helps. JMP

  43. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    And yeah, The Health Care Insurance Industry Is behind all the mob actions:

    Here via TPM:

    Industry-Backed Anti-Health Care Reform Group: Yeah, We’re Packing And Disrupting The Health Care Town Halls

    By Brian Beutler – August 4, 2009, 12:59PM

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-group-yeah-were-packing-and-disrupting-the-health-care-town-halls.php?ref=fpb

    And this from the wonderful & effective & Newsy! Rachael Maddow from MSNBC: ‘Pulling the strings of protest’ Aug 5:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32307452

    She’s got a bunch of decent vids up on the topic in recent days. Showing who’s pulling the strings of all the mobs, threats and violence. JMP

  44. J.M. Prince Avatar
    J.M. Prince

    Thanks Juliana, This is helpful in addressing the whipped up mobs. The key for Congress is to disseminate truthful information. Here are some of the salient factcheck sites that will help:

    http://healthcarefactcheck.com/

    From the DPG is this:

    georgiademocrat.org/healthcarefacts

    Here’s HCAN’s thoughts via TPM:

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2009/08/hcan-playbook-for-thwarting-town-hall-protesters.php?page=1&ref=fpblg

    Hope this helps some. JMP

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